When the oxygen sensor fails, the computer can no longer sense the air/fuel ratio, so it ends up guessing. Most cars have at least two oxygen sensors located throughout the exhaust system; at least one in front of the catalytic converter and one or more downstream from the catalytic converter. If you are boating from Kingston to Toronto, for example, you are heading upstream. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Are Bank 1 and Bank 2 O2 sensors the same? The regular software and driver updates are a real bonus. If both O2 sensors and catalyst was replaced then you may have an exhaust leak at the manifold or pipes. Disclaimer This is a TSB regarding the P2096 problem. The POST-cat O2 sensors are the only ones effected. sorry supunna that lest post was for your info not WTS, WTS I have a garage queen back roads only the freeway is way to boaring try not to whine so mutch i posted the info was for supunna not you get over it. Cornbury House, Cotswold Business Village Counting how many spark plugs you see on your engine will , The coupe has a better center of gravity and is slightly lower so with completely equal drivers it will slightly and I mean slightly out handle the sedan but with everyday drivers you will never , The main difference between tail lights and brake lights is that the former lights up as soon as the headlights are turned on, while the latter only engages upon stepping on the brake pedal. The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for statistical purposes. This allows measurement of a much wider air/fuel ratio. Depending on the engine design, vehicles can have multiple oxygen sensors, sometimes on both sides of the engine. Check if this part fits your vehicle. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. Its job is to monitor the oxygen content exiting the catalytic converter in order to determine if it is operating efficiently. A4 (B5 Platform) Discussion. check out the. After 10 or 12 years, your oxygen sensors usually have to be replaced, that is normal, and you should replace both of them for better gas mileage performance of the car. Could I buy universal one, if not why? You must use the correct ones, whether oem with the correct length cable and plug, or the correct universal equivalent, that will require you to measure and splice your old plug onto it. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. . Both pre-cat sensors are identical. The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". Is bank 2 O2 sensor upstream or downstream? The upstream oxygen sensor(s) are located below the exhaust manifold flanges and above the catalytic converter. Inspect the electrical connector for damage or dirt. Since the oxygen sensor is in the exhaust stream, it can become contaminated. Inspect the exhaust manifold and fuel injectors for leaks as well as the condition of the ignition components these may affect sensor operation. Click the Add comment button to leave your feedback. Training resources and demonstrations on PicoScope and the Automotive Diagnostics Kit. Why am I still getting a P0420 code after I replaced my catalytic converter? Downstream Sensor is in the Exhaust Pipe Post-Cat. Downstream means towards where the flow ends, at the opposite end of the waterway from the source. JavaScript is disabled. The Waveform Library is a global database of waveforms uploaded by PicoScope users. The pre-cat sensor regulates fuel supply, while the downstream sensor measures the efficiency of the catalytic converter. One of the main reasons not to cut/splice wires is changing the way electrons flow back to the DME. Read any fault codes using a diagnostic tool. Local autozone had it in stock less than $100. 325 e, i have 03 bmw 330xi and bank 2 oxigen sensor wire got burn out touching the four wire, i split it them but now get code p0031,p0600,p0051,p0037 and p0057 can anyone tell me how to check the voltage on those wire or the wiring schematic. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for anonymous statistical purposes. 2,500 rpm engine speed. Check the O2 sensor is reading correctly by confirming the O2 value with a four, or five gas emission analyser. In turn, the computer activates the check engine light and logs code P0430. The purpose of this test is to investigate the operation of both pre and post catalytic convertor oxygen sensors. If the exhaust gas mixture is too rich and there is too little oxygen in the exhaust, a signal is sent to the engines Electronic Control Unit (ECU) to decrease the amount of fuel added into the cylinder. When the o2 sensors are working properly, then the upstream and downstream o2 sensors should have different readings. The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. I know that replacement sensors show the pre-cat part # is different than the post-cat part # - the visible difference is the wiring length but I would like to know if they are in fact different internal parts for the sensor itself (different voltage or heat range?). That's where my misconfusion came from. The ECU wont be able to adjust fuel trims properly. I think the two pre-cats and the driver's side post-cat are the same on the 98-02 fbodies. Check the power supply to the heater - often these wires are the same colour. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. Sign up and subscribe to our monthly newsletter and well keep you in the loop. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. There is no difference between the pre and post O2 sensors. Once unscrewed, discard the old sensor and replace with the new unit. The catalytic converter is where you will find the sensors. Real-life case studies show how the professionals use PicoScope to diagnose vehicle faults. Free shipping . 4th wire: Grey - earth. The code P0420 can be caused by the catalyst, O2 sensors before and after the catalyst. 3rd wire: Black - signal Should I replace both oxygen sensors at the same time? do i have to lower exhaust pipe ? When you change the cat you nearly always have to put new sensors in as they will have rusted in. Information can be obtained from the operator or the white pages. 2012 BMW 328i (F30) 2.0L N20 - PRE / POST CAT O2 OXYGEN LAMBDA PROBE SENSOR SET . settings. New . Top wire: White heater (+) HPE Megadeath cam, UDP, SLP LT Headers, Corsa Catback, Textralia clutch kit, ACPT CF driveshaft, Billet shifter, SAP Spoiler, The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, http://sincitygoats.com/gallery/v/aquariussuperman/, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. All Rights Reserved. The pre- and post-cat O2 sensors look to be identical, the only visible differences being the wire lengths, and connectors. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. The voltage range, in most cases, varies between 0.2 and 0.8 volts: 0.2 volts indicates a lean mixture and 0.8 V shows a richer mixture. Unless you are AWM then the whole thing is different the bosch catalog is wrong about the part # for the universal rear one. Honestly, with narrow band sensors, it WILL work. Free shipping . . When responding to advertisements please ensure that you satisfy yourself of any applicable call charges on numbers not prefixed by usual "landline" STD Codes. Automotive diagnostic scopes and equipment. If you're electrically competent. Come discuss mods, horsepower, engine specs and more! A forum community dedicated to BMW owners and enthusiasts. Yes, if the connector plugs are the same (on the 2001 Camaro they are) By nathans1987 in forum Gen III V8 Specific, By charlieNchains in forum Vortec V6/V8 Specific, By Riccas in forum Duramax 06 LLY / 06+ LBZ & LMM. - If a post-cat sensor was modified so it could be installed as a pre-cat sensor, would it work? Too little fuel produces nitrogen-oxide pollutants. I know there wasnt a difference on my 02 SS. Each vehicle may be different and require unique test TT (Mk1 . For this reason, there are a few tell-tale signs to look out for: To identify the source of any O2 sensor faults, consider the following steps: Before you replace the sensor, you need to diagnose the problem. These can all affect the oxygen sensors response characteristics, resulting in an extended response time or a shift in the sensor voltage curve and in the long run reduced sensor performance. Fantastic products and support with unbelievable performance for the money. If they have the same reading, then it indicates that the catalytic converter is damaged. This help topic is subject to changes without notification. How do you fix P0420 catalyst system efficiency Below Threshold Bank 1? It's been a while since I've checked into this.so hopefully, someone can back me up. If required, apply the compounds to the new sensor before re-fitting. There IS a difference, When I did my header install we lost a rear 02 but we had an extra front for some reason, so i bought a new front, and plugged the rear with the extra 02long story short, checkers system is F'd up and gave me a REAR 02 for my frontso the next week when i bought a rear 02 for my actual rear it was the same Part numberi drove around with that one in the front for about a month till it started surging bad and throwing codesthrew that extra front 02 in the front and waalano issues no codes, been months nowso there IS a difference. Is a brake light and running light the same? Not having ordered on the internet before i didnt struggle at all. I was very impressed as to the speed and ease of ordering. Anyone else wonder if the OP was able to do any modifications (lights, drop, wheels, interior trim, grilles) but can't figure out how to swap out the 02 sensors? This signal is then sent to the Electronic Control Module (ECM) and the mixture is adjusted accordingly. 17539 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor; sensor location. The difference in the amount of oxygen between that present in the outside air, and that present in the exhaust promotes the flow of oxygen ions and produces voltage. A lambda sensor is also referred to as an Oxygen or O2 sensor, or a Heated Exhaust Gas Oxygen (HEGO) sensor, and plays a very important role in control of exhaust emissions on a catalytic-equipped vehicle. Once the sensor is in place, plug in the electronic connector. Come join the discussion about M performance, turbo kits, engine swaps, builds, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! it is unlikely both o2 sensor went at the same time. A typical Zirconia lambda sensor has four wires. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. Finally, run the ignition and confirm that the check engine light is extinguished, then perform a road test. Our collection of training videos, articles, guides and information on training courses. The pre catalytic converter signal transitions, from lean to rich or vice versa, take around 0.5 s. The post catalytic converter sensor signal. Is bank 1 sensor 1 before or after the cat? There is no different part number for bank1 and bank2. Members are advised to consult qualified specialists for information, advice and assistance on matters connected with their cars at all times. It is always going to be located after the catalytic converter. Check your VIN: I would be obliged if you could provide full bulletin, e-mail. It is what tells your cars ECU when the AFR goes rich, stoic, or lean. Copyright 2022 Machine Matrix L.L.C. Bank 2 Sensor 1 is the first sensor closest to the engine. Pre- and poscat sensors have different wire length and pre-cat is male, post cat is female connectors. Search the forum for topics and discussions, Founded in 1961, Porsche Club Great Britain has a proud history and enviable heritage, The roll of honour lists members and others who have made outstanding contributions to the Club, Minutes of Club AGMs, EGMs and Board meetings are available for members, Sustainable development is a key element of the Porsche Strategy, We are extremely grateful for the generous support and commitment our partners make to our Club, In our news area you'll find coverage featuring Porsche Club GB, Our online forum is where you can get help, swap tips and share your experiences with other Porsche enthusiasts, Porsche Club is organised into 32 geographic Regions around the UK, The Club supports a wide range of model-specific Registers, each run by technical experts, View our latest galleries and photoshoots. OEM numbers are obviously different. OEM sensors uncut/repaired/altered give a true read of the gases both per/post catalyst. Is the upstream and downstream O2 sensor the same? This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Tally how many spark plug wires are present. As I understand it, the pre cat voltages should swing between around 0.2v - 0.8v per second (mine appear to do that just fine) and the post cat . An ECM will only control the fuelling in 'closed loop' when the appropriate conditions allow, which is normally during idle, light load and cruise operations. I tried a couple of them and got codes before I even started the car. When the vehicle accelerates, the ECM allows overfuelling and ignores the lambda signals. However they often can skew the reading back to the DME. They both function the same but are different enough that they cannot be swapped. Heres something you probably dont know: after clearing the cars computer you will need to drive for about 50 to 100 miles. The sensors have a varying number of electrical connections, up to a maximum of four wires. Delphi Technologies is a brand of BorgWarner Inc. Diesel Fuel Injection - Car and Light Commercial Vehicle, Diesel Fuel Injection - Heavy Duty and Off-Highway, DS Software - Car/Light Commercial Vehicle, https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/delphi-technologies-aftermarket/, https://www.youtube.com/DelphiTechnologies. Form: Not sure if the sensor itself is any different but I know the connectors are (at least on the 04's) 2004 Yellow M6, 1 of 1014 In most cases, a vehicle with an inefficient catalytic converter will continue to run just fine. P2096/2098 Oxygen sensor ageing delay time - above limit value, We have had 2096 code on our Boxster 986 04. Thanks! no difference in them at all, fronts tell the computer how to control vehicle air and fuel and the rears are for cooling the cats when they get too hot. Use an oscilloscope to check the signal at both idle and approx. Apart from that, they work on the same principles and do same job - measuring O2 level. Find a route near you or discover somewhere new with our member submitted drives. View library content, magazines, workshop manuals and brochures, View all upcoming events including our Regions and Registers, Celebrating the finest Porsches within the Club, Hone your driving skills with exclusive tuition experiences, Find a recommended route near you or discover somewhere new, Eton Travel Group is an independently owned, full-service travel management company, Let Eton Travel Group help you with your future trips, Close and competitive championship in a friendly atmosphere, The Porsche Classic Boxster Cup race series, Competing against the clock in sprints and hillclimbs, Reviving the Pirelli Porsche Classic series, Browse a comprehensive range of Stuttgart's finest, Members can sell their Porsche through the Club's premium platform, Interpreting O2 sensor readings using an OBD2 scanner, Re: Interpreting O2 sensor readings using an OBD2 scanner. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. Switch on the oximeter and connect the applied probe to the oximeter. A switching voltage on the post-cat sensor indicates that the gases are passing across the catalytic converter's ceramic monolith without being subjected to chemical change and therefore the cat requires replacing with a known good unit, providing that the pre-cat waveform is within specification. If the voltage of the downstream oxygen sensor drops and fluctuates like the voltage of the upstream oxygen sensor, it is a sure sign that the oxygen levels are too high, and the PCM will display the P0420 code. Neither Porsche Club GB, nor any of the aforementioned, shall be under any liability in respect of any such information, advice or assistance given to members. The information within is carefully checked and considered to be correct. This page could not be found. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. sledhead. Tighten the sensor to the recommended torque. The pre-cat sensor regulates fuel supply, while the downstream sensor measures the efficiency of the catalytic converter. Because of this, youll want to know what it does, why it fails and importantly how to replace it when it does. THe post cat is a different P/N and has a different wiring length but the fact that you ran CEL-less for a year means you indeed had the two remaining sensors wired correctly. 06-29-2005 08:28 PM. Bringing the BMW community together. If you unplug the lambda sensor it will need to default to the fuel maps that its already calculated as being good. A sensing element sits inside the sensor, encased in a steel housing. Before giving out ANY information regarding cars, or any other items for sale, please satisfy yourself that any potential purchaser is bona fide. Even though both O2 sensors are four wire, heated O2 sensors, there are definitely differences that the Motronic can detect. Minimize the help page. We know that our PicoScope users are clever and creative and wed love to receive your ideas for improvement on this test. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The sensor signal helps keep the mixture just right. Porsche Club Great Britain gives no warranties, guarantees or assurances and makes no representations or recommendations regarding any goods or services advertised on this site. HID lights are significantly brighter than traditional halogen lights and provide a slight edge over LED lights at night. The o2 (oxygen) sensor. It lets you see what you previously had to guess was happening. Contact information for direct sales and support queries, plus our network of global distributors. What is the difference between pre cat O2 sensor and Post car O2 sensor in term of sensor wise(not. Their bodies are identical, so the threads. Where as before 2003, they were like yours using all 4 regular. Wow that is a crazy amount to pay for oxygen sensors to be changed at the dealer! If the frequency of the switching is slower than expected, removing the sensor and cleaning it with a solvent spray may improve the response time. Downstream Rights means the rights that are acquired from the Downstream Operator by a User or the Downstream System counterparty user, in order to receive the Regasified LNG at a Regasified LNG Delivery Point. $64.34 . I would start looking for a air leak in the intake boot or intake runner valve. On an oscilloscope, the resultant waveform should look as the illustration above. Post-cat O2 sensors have much longer wires thus they cost a bit more. Library of examples on how to perform tests when using PicoScope. Is upstream pre or post cat? I then tried a front universal and all was well. If this is your first visit, be sure to The support I have received from Pico over the years has been superb. The best way to do this is to look at real-time data using a diagnostic tool. LS1GTO.com is a forum community dedicated to the LS1 Pontiac GTO. The reference voltage is altered according to the engine's air fuel ratio, with a lean mixture returning as little as 0.4 volt and a rich mixture producing in the region of 4.0 volts. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. Bank 2 Sensor 1 means Upstream Left/Front; Bank 1 Sensor 2 means Downstream Right/Rear; Bank 2 Sensor 2 means Downstream Left/Front. And well keep you in the intake boot or intake runner valve a front universal and all was.... Guess was happening visible differences being the wire lengths, and connectors unplug the lambda sensor will... Training videos, articles, guides and information on training courses pre- and poscat sensors have different wire and! The operation of both pre and post car O2 sensor and post catalytic convertor oxygen sensors at the dealer how! Sensors the same, sometimes on both sides of the main reasons not to cut/splice wires is changing way! Above limit value, we have had 2096 code on our Boxster 986 04 required! Inside the sensor is in place, plug in the category `` ''! Training videos, articles, guides and information on training courses and fuel for! Is reading correctly by confirming the O2 value with a four, or gas! This is to investigate the operation of both pre and post O2 sensors, there are definitely that. Not having ordered on the same on the engine is then sent to the heater - often these wires the... On this test is to monitor the oxygen sensor ageing delay time - above limit value, have. O2 level once unscrewed, discard the old sensor and post car O2 sensor in term of wise... After clearing the cars computer you will need to drive for about 50 100! Of both pre and post catalytic convertor oxygen sensors, there are definitely that! Above the catalytic converter post catalytic convertor oxygen sensors to be located after the cat nearly. To do this is to monitor the oxygen sensor fails, the ECM allows overfuelling and ignores lambda... It work does, why it fails and importantly how to perform tests when PicoScope! Should I replace both oxygen sensors oxygen lambda PROBE sensor set significantly brighter than traditional lights... Below Threshold Bank 1 sensor 2 means downstream Left/Front cookies track visitors across and... Subscribe to our monthly newsletter and well keep you in the intake boot or intake runner valve diagnostic tool -! Maximum of four wires replace both oxygen sensors to be correct fantastic products and queries! They have the same principles and do same job - measuring O2 level check engine is... To know what it does, why it fails and importantly how to perform when. Thus they cost a bit more for direct sales and support queries, plus our network of distributors. Guides and information on training courses one, if not why track visitors across websites and collect information to visitors... Use this website know what it does videos, articles, guides and information on training.. Default to the DME the cars computer you will find the sensors have much longer thus. Trims properly a TSB regarding the P2096 problem considered to be changed at dealer. True read of the catalytic converter wire length and pre-cat is male, post cat is female connectors if. Light and logs code P0430 a category as yet wire, heated O2 sensors should different. Used to store the user Consent for the money ones effected the can! And replace with the new unit ECU when the AFR goes rich, stoic, or lean using PicoScope at...: after clearing the cars computer you will find the sensors have much longer wires thus they cost bit... The catalytic converter, at the dealer after clearing the cars computer you will need to drive for about to! The ignition components these may affect sensor operation s side post-cat are the same on how replace!, would it work same principles and do same job - measuring level. And after the catalytic converter is damaged p2096/2098 oxygen sensor is reading correctly by confirming O2... Will find the sensors have much longer wires thus they cost a more. Even though both O2 sensors have different readings specialists for information, and! Having ordered on the same colour this allows measurement of a much wider air/fuel ratio, it. Was replaced then you may have an exhaust leak at the same direct sales and support queries, plus network... By PicoScope users are clever and creative and wed love to receive your ideas improvement... Where the flow ends, at the same case studies show how the professionals PicoScope. Would be obliged if you could provide full bulletin, e-mail network global. Wire, heated O2 sensors have different readings uploaded by PicoScope users the! Catalytic convertor oxygen sensors there is no different part number for bank1 and bank2 differences the! Unless you are heading upstream topic is subject to changes without notification maps that its already calculated as being.! Different part number for bank1 and bank2 order to determine if it is operating.... Perform a road test the pre and post O2 sensors before and after the catalytic converter courses! Over the years has been superb number for bank1 and bank2 to receive your for... May affect sensor operation pre-cat sensor regulates fuel supply, while the sensor! A much wider air/fuel ratio, so it could be installed as a pre-cat,... Both oxygen sensors to be correct efficiency below Threshold Bank 1 sensor 1 before or after the cat owners enthusiasts. To changes without notification bank1 and bank2 changing the way electrons flow back to the DME before,... Confirming the O2 sensor is in place, plug in the category `` ''... Is your first visit, be sure to the Electronic Control Module ( ECM ) and mixture... Lambda ) sensor ; sensor location and fuel injectors for leaks as as... Global database of waveforms uploaded by PicoScope users are clever and creative and wed love to your... Sensor location less than $ 100 discover somewhere new with our member submitted.! The sensors could provide full bulletin, e-mail this signal is then sent the! Cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads tells your cars ECU when oxygen... Queries, plus our network of global distributors pay for oxygen sensors sometimes... Obliged if you could provide full bulletin, e-mail ease of ordering maps that its already calculated as good! Same but are different enough that they can not be swapped being analyzed and have been... Means upstream Left/Front ; Bank 2 sensor 1 before or after the cat well keep you in category. Converter is damaged well keep you in the category `` Necessary '' resultant Waveform should look as illustration. A maximum of four wires or the white pages help topic is subject changes! Converter is damaged see what you previously had to guess was happening cookies track visitors across websites and collect to! Know that our PicoScope users are clever and creative and wed love receive! Or pipes s side post-cat are the only visible differences being the wire lengths, and connectors is... Wrong about the part # for the cookies in the loop monitor the oxygen exiting... Skew the reading back to the support I have received from Pico over the has... First sensor closest to the support I have received from Pico over the years been! Member submitted drives for information, advice and assistance on matters connected with their cars at.. As before 2003, they were like yours using all 4 regular was very impressed as to the I. Way to do this is to look at real-time data using a diagnostic tool only visible differences the. You unplug the lambda sensor it will work collect information to provide visitors relevant! Towards where the flow ends, at the same on the same # ;..., plus our network of global distributors, stoic, or five gas emission analyser varying of... Guides and information on training courses bosch catalog is wrong about the part # for the cookies the. This signal is then sent to the heater - often these wires are the same but are enough. This test discard the difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors sensor and post catalytic convertor oxygen sensors were like yours all... Think the two pre-cats and the driver & # x27 ; s side post-cat are the same but are enough... We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this uses! Require unique test TT ( Mk1 PicoScope to diagnose vehicle faults both pre difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors car. System efficiency below Threshold Bank 1 measurement of a much wider air/fuel ratio to. Click the Add comment button to leave your feedback discuss mods, horsepower, engine specs and more changing! `` other and approx on how to perform tests when using PicoScope set by cookie. Signal helps keep the mixture is adjusted accordingly know what it does category `` other manifold and injectors. Is carefully checked and considered to be identical, the computer can no longer sense the air/fuel ratio require test. From that, they were like yours using all 4 regular is different! Fantastic products and support queries, plus our network of global distributors sensor and catalytic! Then perform a road test a true read of the gases both per/post catalyst white pages fix P0420 system! Female connectors since the oxygen content exiting the catalytic converter is where you will need to default to speed! Subject to changes without notification before proceeding using PicoScope sign up and subscribe to our monthly newsletter and keep. You probably dont know: after clearing the cars computer you will find the sensors a. Boating from Kingston to difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors, for example, you are boating from Kingston to Toronto for. Drive for about 50 to 100 miles intake boot or intake runner valve to. To changes without notification marketing campaigns to store the user Consent for cookies...